Faith, Family, and Leadership: Navigating Life’s High-Stakes Moments with Joe Hannigan

Some days it feels like the weight of work, family, and life is pressing down on us, and no matter how hard we try, the path forward isn’t clear. We can even question our decisions, our purpose, and whether our efforts even matter in the long run. But sometimes, the real direction isn’t found in hustle or strategy, but in the quiet courage to trust and to let the right priorities guide our steps.

Joe Hannigan knows what it’s like to stand at crossroads where success and faith pull in different directions. From building businesses to navigating crises, he’s faced moments that tested his values, his marriage, and his sense of purpose. Through it all, he discovered that putting faith first doesn’t just sustain you, it transforms how you lead, love, and live.

Listen in as Joe shares his journey through building resilient businesses, managing high-pressure leadership, and maintaining a strong marriage, while exploring practical ways to prioritize faith, navigate financial and career setbacks, cultivate meaningful relationships, and make decisions that align with your values and purpose.

01:22 Roots & Upbringing, and Meeting Linda 

05:47 Raising 4 Boys in Faith 

09:30 Standing by Faith Over Profit 

14:25 Rebuilding After Setbacks 

20:03 Servant Leadership in Business 

23:08 Courage in Costly Choices 

28:08 Faith as a Compass in Marriage 

35:00 Faith Shapes Daily Life 

37:28 Advice for Christian Leaders 

43:19 Legacy of Relationships 

47:36 Trusting God for the Future

03:21 “I fell in love with her [my wife] before I ever went on my first date with her… Not having met a woman of faith up until that time of real faith threw me. So it was immediately attractive to me. I always wanted to be with a girl who loved God more than me.” —Joe Hannigan 

11:44 “I didn’t want to be the guy who made it easier to get a divorce.” —Joe Hannigan

20:22 “I try to limit my agenda when it doesn’t need to be pushed so that I can engage the people that I work with and the people who help me succeed. I’ve forged a lot of great relationships.” —Joe Hannigan

20:44 “To be a good leader, like Christ, you have to be a servant.” —Joe Hannigan

26:12 “I had nowhere to go for rest. Work became way more stressful than anything else because there were no clients and plenty of real estate sitting on the ground.” —Joe Hannigan

28:17 “I wouldn’t have had a compass. If I didn’t have faith, I wouldn’t have had a rule book. The beauty of having a Christian wife is, if we have conflict, we both are playing by the same rule book.” —Joe Hannigan

30:03 “I shun pride as much as I can. Anything I have is by the grace of God. I don’t deserve anything.” —Joe Hannigan

31:23 “Step outside yourself for perspective, and that’s a survival technique that I use.” —Joe Hannigan

32:09 “A lot of the times, what we don’t realize is God is more interested in our heart than he is in our behavior.” —Don Wood

32:54 “If something doesn’t play out that I want, then it wasn’t meant to be.” —Joe Hannigan

34:30 “There’s price elasticity, and it can only get stretched so far. It’s going to snap, and it’s going to create a little bit of disorder and chaos. [Be confident in what God has in store for you. He’s never going to leave you or forsake you.” —Don Wood

38:15 “If you’re into anything for the money or recognition or to get to the top of the hill, you’re in it for the wrong reasons because when you get to the top, you’re going to realize there’s nobody up there— you’re all alone.” —Joe Hannigan

39:55 “The harder you work, the luckier you are.” —Joe Hannigan

41:50 “I always say everybody that you meet is going through something— it’s that hidden trauma or difficulty that they don’t really want to express to others… Most people just would like us to listen to them so they could feel heard, so they can work things out.” —Don Wood

43:22 “I want people to remember me not by what I’ve done, but who I was.” —Joe Hannigan

47:05 “I have no idea [what’s ahead], but I’m excited to find out!” —Joe Hannigan

47:41 “God’s more interested in your life than you are, and it’s going to be an adventure.” —Don Wood

Joe Hannigan has been married to his wife, Linda, for over 30 years, and together they’ve raised four boys. Alongside his dedication to family and community, Joe has built an impressive career as an entrepreneur and business leader. He’s the principal of Hannigan Development, where he’s led residential and commercial design projects, and he’s also founded and grown successful companies in the mortgage and legal services industries. Beyond business, Joe has invested in his community—coaching youth sports, serving on church leadership boards, and leading a $6.5 million capital campaign for Sacred Heart. At the heart of it all, Joe’s story is about faith, leadership, and a passion for helping people grow.  

Website

Facebook

Don Wood is the founder of Men’s Leadership, God’s Way, where he coaches executives and leaders to achieve clarity, confidence, and peace without sacrificing their health, faith, or family. Drawing from his own journey through adversity—including overcoming addiction, serious health challenges, and personal loss—Don inspires others to lead with conviction and purpose. His faith-based approach emphasizes transformation, resilience, and the power of vulnerability, helping men discover their unique gifts and live out their calling. Don is dedicated to equipping leaders to experience true success by trusting in God’s wisdom and strength.

Website

Facebook

LinkedIn

X

YouTube

Welcome to Men’s Leadership, God’s Way. I’m your host. Don Wood. This is the place where men learn to lead with faith, clarity and conviction. Together, we’ll explore real stories and biblical principles to help you be a model of integrity in your work, family and everyday life. Let’s get started. 

Don Wood: Well, hey guys, today you’re at Bill Treat. I’ve got my very good friend, business mentor, and I would also say tennis coach, Joe Hennigan. Joe, we met many, many years ago when I was a trainer at Planet Fitness in Plymouth, Massachusetts. And then I remember I had met you at North River church, and we had some brief introductions there. And then I’ll never forget, I was going by this commercial property one day, and I was thinking about maybe renting the space. I called it, and you answered, and I didn’t realize that you had had the property. And that’s the way we had reconnected again. And then I ran into you again at Lowe’s about two years ago. And since then, we’ve had breakfast two, three times a month, and we played tennis a lot together. And guys, I’m going to tell you, and I’ll let Joe just introduce himself and just give you a little bit of his background just to start things off.

Joe Hannigan: Well, Don, thanks for having me. It’s great to see you, and great to see you off the tennis court as well. I don’t have to sweat as much talking to you, but maybe I’ll be sweating here. Maybe he’ll get me on the spot. But anyway, happy to be here. Love what you’re doing. My bio, basically, I came from a family of four. I’m the third child. Have good parents that are still alive. I grew up in Framingham. Had the good fortune of having parents who are together, strong Catholics. My mom was actually a nun pre-Vatican ll. She was clustered for six years before she decided it wasn’t her calling and came out and had four kids, a rabbit, a cat and a dog within a year. Well, four years of leaving the convent. In any event, I went off to college, met my wife and settled on the South Shore, and that’s how we met. My wife is from the South Shore. Love it out here, and have tried to make a career and a family with the time I’ve had here. And here I am, and grateful for the friendship and the time we get to spend together.

Don Wood: Now, you and Linda have been married for what? Over 30 years? 

Joe Hannigan: Yep, 30 years. 1993, so we’re getting on 32. It’s been the best 15 years of my life. So funny story, when we were in college, I was actually dating her roommate. We were dating for a couple years, and I had met Linda during those years. Fast forward and another year, I was no longer dating her roommate, and they were no longer roommates either. So we ran into each other and struck up a great friendship, and we were actually racquetball partners at UMass where we went to school. I think I fell in love with her before I ever went on my first date with her, and she played hard to get. And it was funny because I really liked her. I asked her out on a date after I got to know her, and she said, no. That was a crash to the ego, and I wasn’t used to that, and it really put me in a curious place. And I was like, well, what’s wrong? What’s wrong with me? Why won’t you date me? And her simple answer at the time was, you don’t have the kind of faith I have. And wow, that was a slap. Growing up Catholic, I love the tradition of the Catholic Church, and I was a dutiful Catholic. I went to church every Sunday, and I thought I had carte blanche because I did that, and I received all the sacraments. And my mom was a nun. I thought that it gave me a gold card, but it should be enough, right? Well, that should be enough. That was my ticket. But not having met a woman of faith, up until that time of real faith, it just kind of threw me. So it was immediately attractive to me, and I wanted to know what it was that she had, that she didn’t see in me. I could see how she lived her life, and it was super attractive.

Don Wood: It’s different from the world’s perspective. Because usually, it’s drawn when you’re dating, it’s from the basis of promotion, rather than attraction. And you were attracted to her conviction.

Joe Hannigan: Yeah.  I think there’s a part of me that always wanted to be with a girl that loved God more than me for the simple reason that, selfishly, it took the pressure off me, like she wasn’t going to look to me to be her be all and end all. So to me, that was super attractive. I always wanted a girl that loved God more than me, that was just attractive in my mind. And maybe I didn’t know why at the time, but that’s really what drew me to her.

Don Wood: So how were you dating before you got married? 

Joe Hannigan: We met in 89, and got married in 93. We actually met in 88, but we didn’t start dating till 89, so it was about four or five years that we had known each other.

Don Wood: Exceptional guys. Share with the audience a little bit about your boys.

Joe Hannigan: Okay. So we got married in 93, and we had four children. We waited a few years. Our first child came in 97, so we were married for four years, and we did quite a bit in that time. I was actually starting a business. Had sold the business and took a little time for travel with Linda. And then when we got back, we weren’t about starting a family. We had four boys within six years, so that changed the dynamic rather quickly. But they were super lucky. They’re all out of school now, and they’re all doing their own thing, and we’re still close. We see them all the time because my wife still cooks dinner, and they come home, and spend time with us. So it’s wonderful. My last two boys just moved out in September, both got out of college within the last couple years. 

Don Wood: You folks have done a great job, because they are exceptional guys. They really are. At least tell parents that you can do all the right things, but it’s the kids that ultimately make their own decisions. And I think that under a faith based environment with God’s word, who gives us how we should conduct our lives, and it’s the practice in the home, I think you have a better chance of guys that when they leave and they go out into the world, they make better decisions. So Joe, if you would, could you share with us a little bit about your business journey?

Joe Hannigan: Sure. Well, it’s taken a lot of twists and turns. When I went to school, I originally went for Microbiology. My goal was to go to medical school, but I was not cut out for school. I didn’t see myself after two years of microbiology, going for another two years, and then another four years, and then another two years, and then another one year. It just seemed unreachable and not practical. So I switched to engineering just because it was the sciences. I always had an interest in building and structural engineering of sorts, so I figured that was something I could switch over to get a degree and get out. I really was ready to go out and work. For mom and dad, I needed to go and spend some time at school, and get an education the old fashioned way. But I always had my sights set on working for myself. I never worked a day in engineering. When I got out of college, I immediately went into a business that I created. It was a legal business. Had nothing to do with engineering, but I saw a need for the uncontested, non litigation service for people who typically had to pay attorneys large sums for things like bankruptcy, wills, trust, divorce, corporations of that nature. 

So we did about 70 different legal procedures for people that did not require litigation, did not require legal representation. They were simply procedural things that had to get through the courts or filed at an appropriate place. But there was no one available to do that, other than the attorneys. A couple of things with that, first off, it’s a very protected industry, so the lawyers did not like somebody coming in even though we weren’t representing our clients. They were what’s called pro se or acted as their own attorney, and we were quite successful. I franchised it, and within a few years, had 17 offices throughout the state. We were from the East Coast. Furthest West was Pittsfield, and we operated quite successfully. And that raised the attention of the lawyer industry. So they did a lot to put us out. They brought us to court. Tried to trap us and saying, we’re giving legal advice, they would actually send people to our offices and ask for legal advice. We never offered it. We were very clear. We had disclaimers everywhere, but they were determined to take us out. 

At one point, we were doing 5% of all the chapter 7 bankruptcy in the state of Massachusetts. So we had a presence. And the only way they were able to stop us was to legislate us out. They couldn’t get us on anything but price fixing. The price of the bankruptcies, which was a large part of what we did. They actually reformed the bankruptcy code in 1995, and in that they said, if you’re what’s called the bankruptcy petition preparer, then you can only charge $105. The reasoning was, three hours to type up a bankruptcy. $35 an hour per typist. There it is. They didn’t account for the light over the desk, or the signage, or the rent, or before you even get to profit. It was just a way that they could incorporate that. Essentially, that puts you out of business. It did. It brought me to a point where my first struggle as a Christian, and the reason I sold the business was I didn’t know how the business would play out. But divorce became a large part, as well as bankruptcy. Because it was a situation, and many times where it’s called 1A divorce, it’s uncontested, it’s a foregone conclusion. They’re getting divorced, and they didn’t really have much assets with no division of assets, no division of debts. They just needed the paperwork. 

Don Wood: And it’s just generally procedural in nature. 

Joe Hannigan: It’s not a contested, that’s 1B. So we didn’t do that, but we started to really gain a presence in that, and it never sat well with me. I didn’t want to be the guy who made it easier to get a divorce. And for a while, I justified it. I said, well, we’re making it easier and less stressful in an already stressful situation. I don’t want to see these people who are at the worst point of their lives, then get built thousands of dollars by these attorneys who make each party get an attorney, and they throw paper back and forth and make it a contested situation and very costly. But I decided that not only could I not survive by doing that as a business. Because now, we had to take bankruptcy off our menu because they had legislated that as the price fix. I even went to Washington, DC. I testified to the Congressional subcommittee about this reformation of the Bankruptcy Code. Being young and naive, I took planes, trains and automobiles to get to Washington. And then when I was up the mic, they told me to yield the floor, which I didn’t know at the time. I was young. Turn to the guy, so what does he tell you? They said, get off the mic. And I said, what? They didn’t want to hear, we had all these unconstitutional facets of what they were trying to do, price fixing an industry, rather than let supply and demand take its course. It was eye opening for me at the time, thinking that, well, justice. Lady Justice is blind but, but certainly has an eye. The blindfold pulled down, and an eye looking over at the brotherhood of attorney. So I realized that, number one, I couldn’t stay doing bankruptcies. We had too much of a presence, and we were basically legislated out. And then the decision was, okay, we’ll cut our teeth on divorce. I decided that I didn’t want to do that. I could have made that a very big presence. I think we could have expanded, but I just felt as though God didn’t want me to do that, so I sold the business.

Don Wood: Well, here you were. You’re at this crossroads between the world’s definition of what success looks like and your faithfulness in Jesus.

Joe Hannigan: Yeah, it was tough. And of course, I had my wife who I could consult on these things. And she’s wise, always has been. I’m very fortunate to have that as a partner because I can bounce these things off her, and it’s like talking to God Himself sometimes.

Don Wood: God uses our spouses, right?

Joe Hannigan: Yes. And I felt like that. So we sold the business, and I moved on to do other things.

Don Wood: What did you do? What was the next step in your journey, in your business?

Joe Hannigan: Let’s see. That was in 95 when I came back. One of the things was an offshoot of what we were doing. Because we were doing bankruptcy and divorce, a lot of our clients would come back and say, okay, my credit’s good. Now, I want to buy a house, or I need to refi the house and take my spouse off. And so I had teamed up with a mortgage company at the time to handle all that. All our offices were going through this mortgage company, and when I realized that the mortgage business was simply paperwork like we were doing, we brought that in house early on. So I then started a mortgage company after I sold exclusively to do that, and did that until 2008. Until the banking crisis of 2008. Basically, we went from having 10 originators here in my office to the new Act that came out after that crisis was that each loan officer had to be individually licensed, which everyone had worked under my license, and you couldn’t convince any of these guys to take the test and site for it because there was no loans to be had. The criteria for a loan had just increased significantly, and most of the companies that we did business with were no longer. The majority of the banks we dealt with just closed shop. So the loan industry really suffered at the time. The day I remember surrendering my license, I had the bank examiners in my office because they’d come once a year and look at your signage and your advertising, and find a way to find you for not having your license number on some advertisement or something. And that examiner said, there’s only 500 of you guys left in Massachusetts. 

And I said, well, after you’re done finding me, there’s going to be 499 because I’m giving you my license today. And they looked at me, kind of shocked. I guess they shouldn’t have been. But I said, yeah, I’m surrendering my license because it just went away. It evaporated from there. I’d always been interested in construction design, and I had dabbled in it between engineering and pre med. I had taken a year off from college, and I bought a house and fixed it up, flipped it, and went back to school. And that was a lot of fun, and it was a learning experience. I decided that I would venture into that. So basically, I built my first house in 97, which was my own design. And then went from there and started building homes. 

Don Wood: A very lovely home. 

Joe Hannigan: Oh, thank you. Thank you. And so it’s creative for me. It gives me a ton of freedom. It’s wonderful. You have to love what you do, right? So I do love that more than anything. I hate being in an office. I hate corporate structure. And there’s a lot of just a lot of freedom in it. 

Don Wood: How many guys work for you now? 

Joe Hannigan: I keep it small. I have a team, but they’re all subcontractors. I’m not responsible for their day to day employment. I’ve had the same team for 20 years, but I use them as I need them. They’re individual electrician, and plumber, an HVAC guy and framers. I have the same guys that I’ve been using. One of the things we did, me and my wife, after 2008 because the mortgage industry, the housing industry imploded. I decided that I wasn’t going to build and sit on a spec and watch the value go down, and watch the interest payments go up. So I decided that I would build on Cape Cod, and I thought that if I couldn’t sell it, I could keep it on as an Airbnb, as a vacation rental market. So that’s what I did, and I ended up accumulating some properties through that. So that’s an offshoot that organically happened, that now we have this stable of properties that we rent for the summertime, and that’s all born out of that implosion in 2008 and that fear of sitting on spec homes. And it’s been quite busy there too. So my wife handles all that, and I continue with the building. But we work together, and it’s been very manageable and great.

***Hey, guys, you ever feel like you’re leading on the outside but running empty on the inside? Hi, I’m Don Wood, Founder of Men’s Leadership, God’s Way. I work one on one with executives and leaders who are ready to trade burn out confusion and isolation for clarity, confidence and peace. My coaching is designed to help you to lead with conviction without sacrificing your health, faith or family. So if you’re ready to experience the transformation you’ve been searching for, visit mensleadershipgodsway.com, and let’s start your journey today.

Don Wood: So Joe, as a business leader, I know you have a biblical perspective in everything that you do. Could you share with us a little bit about what your philosophy is of how you apply the Bible and Jesus into your business life?

Joe Hannigan: Well, I think the reason I’ve been able to stay with the same team, and I think I have had a servant’s heart anyway in my life, that’s my love language. I think I carry that over to work. I give time and an ear to all the people that I work with. I try to limit my agenda when it doesn’t need to be pushed, and so that I can engage the people that I work with, and the people who help me succeed. And it’s been good. I’ve forged a lot of great relationships. And for anybody going into business, I think to be a good leader like Christ, you have to be a servant. Mark 10:43-45 says, “Instead, whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant. Whoever wants to be first must be a slave to all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many that love that.” So I think it comes a little more naturally for me because I really don’t want to be the boss at work. I want to be with everybody, and we’re all on a common goal. And if I can help you achieve that, it doesn’t matter that the buck might stop with me. Never been in it. And so I like to work in humility and blend in with the team, and we’re all in it together sort of atmosphere. Sleeves up, and you work alongside that. I’m there all the time. Maybe to a fault, maybe they don’t want me there. I think that’s for my business. 

Don Wood: I just think it’s so awesome that your philosophy of servant leadership has really guided your business. Look at how it’s thrived as a result? I just think it’s awesome. So have you ever faced a situation where you were doing the right thing from a biblical perspective, but it cost you and your business? 

Joe Hannigan: Well, yeah. The big thing that comes to mind is (inaudible). That was the name of my legal company. I basically walked away from it, and it was something I built up over years because I just didn’t want to be the divorce King, right? Somebody else can do that. And there’s merit in offering the service. I’m not saying that it’s an evil service, but I just didn’t want to be associated with and promote that. Even though I justified it for a while and said, well, we’re making it less stressful for those who are coming to us. We’re not causing the divorce. We’re just letting them down easier than they otherwise would be let down. I just didn’t want to be associated with it, and that came at a huge cost. I had young kids. I didn’t have them all, but it was a scary time. It was very scary to say, I’m going to walk away from this, and I got to figure out what I’m going to do.

Don Wood: Was there ever a time where you had a conversation with someone where you said, well, what are you doing? Why are you getting the divorce?

Joe Hannigan: May think back. It’s a long time ago. I think I had to have that professional wall up. They weren’t coming to me for counseling. They were coming to me in a place of hurt, and maybe humiliation, disgrace and all those things. And could have that been a mission field, probably, but it wasn’t the boundaries that we created for me to enter that we had to hold out as this is a service we provide. We can’t. We’re not going to get you in here and try to change your mind. It just wasn’t the point of that for us.

Don Wood: It’s interesting. Statistics show that 70% of people that get divorced, if they had to do it over again, they wouldn’t have gotten the divorce. Because what they did is, from the divorce, they took themselves with them into the next relationship. And then they were into the same darn thing all over again. That must have been a time where not only was it scary, but you probably felt a little discouraged about what was going on in your business? What was going to be the next step? What’s next for me, Lord? Can you tell me a little bit about how the Lord was speaking to your heart for what the next move was?

Joe Hannigan: I’ve had numerous occasions where that’s happening in my life. After the 2008 banking crisis, I was stuck with millions of dollars in real estate and a mortgage company. My eggs were in one basket, although I thought maybe, oh, I have the building and the mortgage. They were in one basket. And overnight, they were taken away. And I think at that point, that was even stronger fear. Because now, I had four children who were between the ages of, let’s say, 11 and 7. I just imagined me coming back to the nest and all the bird mouths are open, and I don’t have the worm. But I didn’t escape that. I made a lot of mistakes. (inaudible) was somewhat easier because I didn’t have so much at stake. When you’re lean, you can switch directions and can be okay with that. But the more you add to your life, the harder it is, and the more fearful you get. The missteps I took is that my haven was my home. And if it wasn’t, then my work was my haven. So if there was a lot of pressure with the kids and wife, and there was so much to do. I could go to work, and there, I could be the man, right? I could go and we could build, create and everything. So I think what happened in 2008 was I had nowhere to go for rest. So work became way more stressful than anything else because there were no clients and plenty of real estate sitting on the ground. So I think at that point, I would go home, and life was chaotic. The added stress of the financial pressure, the children and the needs of the home. I left the house for, I want to say, you know what? I don’t even remember. Thankfully, I think I blocked a lot of it out. But I left for 10 months. I wanted the desert, so to speak, because I stayed in touch with God, but I was looking for anything in the Bible to justify that it was okay to step out of my life at that point.

Don Wood: That was the crisis of your faith at that time. 

Joe Hannigan: Oh, yeah, that was a huge test, but I knew I had to stay engaged. I went up to Maine. My sister and brother-in-law have a camp up in Maine. It’s off grid. It’s miles from anything. And I’m going up there. I’m taking my Bible, no distractions, and I’m going to go through that book and find justification for me stepping out of my life, leaving my wife and children to be with themselves, and I’ll support them from a barb. And guess what? I couldn’t find anything. There was nothing in there that justified what I was doing. But I think it was a slow burn for me to work through all that stuff, get back on my feet and reconcile things with my wife, and get back on solid footing. It wasn’t easy. There was pressure from every every angle, but it was something, thankfully by the grace of God, no one else, I dodged a huge bullet. We made the necessary changes and reparations to continue on and flourish.

Don Wood: Or do you think that if God wasn’t with you through this, this crisis, that you probably would have ended up divorced?

Joe Hannigan: I wouldn’t have had a compass. I wouldn’t have had it if I didn’t have faith. The beauty of having a Christian wife is if we have conflict, if we have disagreement, we both are playing by the same rule book. We can go to that rule book and say, okay, was it said? And we both believe it. I can’t imagine being with somebody who’s playing with a different rule book, because it’s no wonder that the divorce rate is so high, and we dodged a huge bullet. I think that was squarely on that, and really on my wife, because of her faith and loyalty, and her patience for me to get over myself and figure out what I needed to figure out. So if she wasn’t such a godly woman, it would have been over too.

Don Wood: Yeah. I think it’s so neat with God’s word, because it’s life’s guidebook. It eliminates guesswork. Whether it’s faith, finances, parenting, your health, marriage, business, all of the answers are right there in God’s word. So here you are. You navigate a series of setbacks in your business and in your family life. You get to the other side. And now, life is moving along. You’ve got these properties. You’re building homes. The economy’s good again. Your kids are doing well. How do you overcome the temptation and have a little bit of pride to say, hey, it’s me. And I’m doing really well here. And maybe the temptation to maybe instead of having God at the center of your life, God might be out in the periphery. How do you overcome that for yourself?

Joe Hannigan: I shun pride gone as much as I can when I was younger. Probably had it, but I failed enough over my days. I realized that anything I have is by the grace of God. I don’t deserve anything. None of us do. And if he decides tomorrow to take it all away, I’ll have to find a way to accept that he’s done that to many people. I’ve just been blessed enough now. I’m not saying that tomorrow doesn’t hold some other plight in my life. We all go through difficult times, and I’ve been through enough of them that, oh, gosh, I hate the idea of saying I earn this, I deserve this. That just makes my skin crawl. At that time in 2008, I can clearly remember God speaking to me and say, get over yourself. It was self-talk. I was like, get over yourself, Joe. But it was God talking. And I’m like, you’re sitting there having a pity party for yourself, but do you have flies landing on your eyes? And do you have a distended belly? Are you eating? And I was like, yeah. I’m not so bad off. Why am I so self centered to be consumed by my own problems? It doesn’t make them easy. They’re yours, and they’re your reality, but you have to step outside yourself for perspective. And that’s a survival technique that I use. It wasn’t any other thing than just to put it in perspective for my own well being. It’s funny when I get out into the world, a lot of times, I’ll use this phrase, if you’re not humble, you’ll stumble. Because the predominantly out in the world with guys is, I’m not much, but I’m all I think about. Anytime we get prideful, I think that it’s because of our own doing. I’m always afraid that God’s going to show me that that’s not true. I’m too afraid, so I never want to wear that hat.

Don Wood: A lot of the time, what we don’t realize is God is more interesting in our heart than he is in our behavior. If he has our heart, then we can have a relationship with him. And then we know him, and we can trust him, and that’s when we love him deeply. Let me ask you this, when you’re faced with a really difficult decision, how do you use your faith and God to help you come to where you feel like you’re really confident making that decision moving forward for yourself? What do you do again?

Joe Hannigan: I think with age comes wisdom. I’m 60 years old. I’m on the backside of the hill of my career. And I think what I’ve taken away is maybe different from how I used to think, if something doesn’t play out that I want, then it wasn’t meant to be. Just total blind faith. I’ll pursue what I need to pursue. For instance, now in the current climate that we’re in real estate, the buy is high, the borrow is high, the build is high, and the sell. I’m in the buy, borrow, build, sell cycle. The sell is going down, or maybe that perceived bubble. So it’s a very tough time to do what I do. I’m on the bench, and I’ve looked at, in the last two months, six different things. It’s not just looking at them and saying, oh, that doesn’t work. You have to sit down, design stuff, figure out and price it. Figure out what the sale price is. It’s a lot of work to come up with, no, this doesn’t work. That’s been the case in the last six properties I’ve looked at to invest in. And so I’m certainly on the bench. And back in the day, I’d probably be a little freaked out, anxious, antsy and questioning all sorts of things, but I just have to just see. I just feel like God will place whatever he needs to place in front of me. It’ll appear, and he’ll fulfill His purpose for me in these next short term years as I have to be. I just have to be ready for that and accept it.

Don Wood: To your point, Joe, the thing is there’s price elasticity, right? And it can only get stretched so far. And I think what we’re going to see is that it’s going to snap, and it’s going to create, let’s just say a little bit of disorder and chaos. And it’s nice to know that someone like you can be a leader because you’re confident in what God has in store for you. He’s never going to leave or forsake you, and he’s always been with you. Tell me about your church life. How has that played a role in your work? In your family? Is it in your community?

Joe Hannigan: Well, again, being raised Catholic is more dutiful. You do what you need to do, and things are good. Make sure you make church and put a quarter in the offering basket, and everything’s cool. You might fight getting out of the parking lot to be the first one out. But anyway, it was just a tradition, a custom. It was just how I grew up. So that was my set point, right? Being a Catholic in New England, I think most people can relate to that. Well, Linda was a Protestant. It took me a while to even learn what the Bible said. So we joined Bible studies, and I accepted the Lord in the Dominican Republic on a mission trip back before we were married, and that was with a Bible study. Linda was a great witness for me. And little by little, it really came to understand what true faith was, and what Christ was actually saying through His Word, which I never had that experience before. So after that, I think I compartmentalize my day to make sure that I get some teaching or some time with God. And I’m very fortunate to have, as I think, a sauna in my home that I built during covid, and it’s been the best place to go for quiet time. I get up early. I’m an early riser, and the world’s asleep. I’ll go in there, and I’ll say my prayers, and I’ll throw on a Rick Warren Daily Hope Podcast, and just set the tone for my day. 

Don Wood: All the difference when you do that first thing in the morning. Your day is completely different, isn’t it? 

Joe Hannigan: I’m sure it happens to you. You wake up and your mind’s flying on what you got to do today. And I remember one, I think Rick Warren said, don’t put your feet on the ground until you give praise. Show gratitude for everything that you have. And I’m like, okay. Sometimes you’re like, okay, I’m grateful. You look out the window and look for a beautiful tree, and I’m grateful for that tree. Sometimes you can’t think of anything off the back because your mind’s racing, but it’s so true. If you just have a mindset of gratitude, it just changes your outlook. Always check yourself, because it just puts you in the mindset.

Don Wood: Joe, what advice would you give to Christian men in leadership who might feel isolated or under pressure in the work environment or life? Because when many leaders, when they’re feeling isolated, it’s coming at them from all different directions, right? Their family life, their work life, their community life, their internal life. Maybe the temptations that they’re faced with and the stress, because coming home doesn’t mean that the stress goes away. What would your advice be to leaders who are dealing with that? 

Joe Hannigan: Well, I can only speak to the entrepreneurs as far as work goes. And I would say to entrepreneurs, don’t chase what the world chases. If you’re into anything for the money, or the recognition, or to get to the top of the hill, you’re in it for the wrong reasons. Because when you get to the top, you’re going to realize that there’s nobody up there. You’re all alone, and you’re going to damage relationships. And I’ve been very fortunate to have chosen a field where almost my work life runs in a parallel universe next to my main life, which is, again, I’m blessed. I work with Linda. We work great together. We can make our own schedules, and we can travel, and we can do this stuff. But the work is just a means to an end. It’s not for recognition or for stuff. Again, comes with the older you get. I wanted a fancy sports car. I wanted to be a millionaire when I got out of college. And, oh, I invented this, and I want to start this business. But it’s sinking sand because you’re never going to get it if you’re chasing stuff, or money, or recognition. It’s never going to be enough. 

And as you get older, you realize, oh, the more stuff I have, the more I have to deal with fixing it, storing it, disposing of it. Stuff is a burden. That’s not to say we all have stuff, and we need to have stuff to live and provide. But if you have a minimalist attitude in business or work, everything you do is forgotten, right? So I have a friend, a dear friend. I grew up with him as a kid, and he’s always like, oh, that guy’s so lucky. And this one’s so lucky. And I say to him, well, Kenny, the harder you work, the luckier you are. What I mean by that is just get up and go to work every day. You can have a goal and can focus on that goal, but it’s really what you do today. Do your best and work hard as if you’re working for Christ, and then things are going to happen for you in work. Don’t overdo it. Don’t work 10, 12 hours a day and miss your kids soccer games, or dinner at night with your family. Because at the end of the day, what’s going to matter when we’re all on our death bed is not, oh, geez, I made that great deal, or I made this much money. You’re going to say, I wish I had more time with this person, or that person, or my children, or my wife. It’s all relational.

Don Wood: You’ve always been intentional without your family, haven’t you, to really spend time with your wife and boys. 

Joe Hannigan: It’s my favorite thing, and I’ll set myself up so that I can do that. Those are my primary relationships then, and I get a lot of joy out of it. I don’t want to lose that to chasing some business idea. But I love business. I love what I do, and I love the thrill of it. But you have to temper it. And then personal life, I think the same is true. You need to take care of the relationships in your life, your friends, your family because they’re so broken everywhere. There’s going to be people who you’ll break, and they’ll be mad at you, and that you just have to be available for them and help them when you can forgive them. Same goes with me. I hope if I do something that hurts a relationship, that I’ll get the grace from somebody else. And I think I was just created that way. 

Don Wood: I love that Joe because I always say, everybody that you meet is going through something. And it’s that hidden trauma that they’re going through, or that difficulty that they don’t really want to express to others. I love it. When I’ll go up to somebody else, how’s it going? And they’ll say, it’s going great. And I’ll say, how’s it really going on? And then open your door for them to share a little bit about what their struggle is. And I think most people would like us to listen to them so they can work things out. And as we know in Scripture, God says, wherever two or more together meet, I’m going to be there. And I also love your philosophy. You just shared with us about how seeking Christ first in our life, all those other things will be added on in our life rather than, well, I want to go after all these things, and I’ll lead God at the periphery of my life. But then when I need him, that’s when I’ll call upon him. It usually is too late. But what a wonderful legacy that you have made with your family in terms of really making a big investment of your time with your wife and your children. Because now, I know you have one boy that’s married, and now you have been a model for what parenthood should really be like, and you’re passing that legacy along. And I think that’s just a wonderful thing. Tell me a little bit more about that. Tell me what that legacy is for you,

Joe Hannigan: As far as family goes, I want a legacy. I want people to remember me, I guess, not by what I’ve done, but who I was. I don’t ever want to be referred to as, oh, he’s the guy that had this or did this. Not that I’ve done anything memorable. But if at the end of my life people say, he was there for me, or we had a great relationship. Then that’s everything. I think I was cut that way. I just love having good, solid relationships. And I think that when you are rooted in Christ, Christ has promised us so many good things. So if we truly believe what he says, then it’s a crutch. All right. God, you got it. I could just follow, you’re telling me as best I can. Of course, I’m going to stumble. I’m going to go left and right. I’ll be the window licker on the bus for a while, but you’re going to pull me back in because I’m rooted in what you say, and everything’s going to be good. Everything’s going to be wonderful. Love your neighbor, love God. The greatest commandment, right? So okay, if I do that, am I good? Well, yeah. And then this and this. And then, okay, that’s easy. That’s great. It’s a great life. And I think that he’s out there to protect us from pain and consequence, and from so much of the sin that just gets us all. We all have the pain of insecurity, fear, anger, envy and all those things. 

Christ says, okay, well, this is what you do about it. And if you’re not rooted in that, and you don’t keep a pulse on what’s happening in your life, then that could become the focus, and that’s really damaging. I would encourage anybody to really think that way. I don’t think I’m well equipped to give advice. I think that’s your strong suit, but I can only share my experience and what works for me. And I would just hope that if anybody’s struggling with that, that they would just take that opportunity to say, hey, let me get grounded here. Let me see what Christ is saying about the problems in my life, and how I deal with them. It’s the instruction manual we talked about earlier. Pain, sin and damage in this world is a real thing, but I think we can get victory over it if we navigate it right.

Don Wood: You mentioned a couple minutes ago about loving your neighbor, and you had an event at your house about a month ago, a summer event, and had a blast. By the way, the band was great. The evening was beautiful. But here’s one thing that really struck me in terms of being there that night, I got a chance to meet with a few of your neighbors. And every single one of them said to me, Joe has always been there for me. He’s the best neighbor you could ever have. You live it out.

Joe Hannigan: That means more to me than anything. 

Don Wood: You have an impeccable relationship with the community, and I think it has everything to do with your relationship with Jesus. What a wonderful example. And by saying that, what do you think is next for you in terms of your life, whether it’s in your community, or with the church, or with your business? What’s ahead for you? 

Joe Hannigan: Well, that’s a great question, and my answer is, I have no idea. But I’m excited to find out. I don’t look too far ahead. I try to deal with it one day at a time. And hopefully, I do the right thing, and I can navigate whatever comes. But again, it’s a trust thing. I have to trust that whatever it is, I guess I’m prepared for it. I hope God will prepare me for whatever he wants from me in the next, however many years.

Don Wood: He will. Because when you love Christ, and I always say to people, God’s more interested in your life even you are. And it’s going to be an adventure. And our visit here is very brief compared to our relationship that we’re going to have with him eternity. So Joe, I just want to thank you for spending the time here with me today. You’re a very dear friend. You mean the world to me. I just hope that in the future, you’re able to come back on, and we can have another discussion.

Joe Hannigan: Oh, I love it Don. I’m privileged to be on your show. I thank you very much, and wish you all the success and anything you need from me.

Don Wood: I need more of your tennis wisdom.

Joe Hannigan: Well, maybe some people listening to this will not really understand some of the things we talked about, because I do have to say that I am very fortunate and blessed to not have had, I mean, I’ve had financial setbacks, but I think it’s hard for me to speak about like, oh, this is the way you have to do things, and this is the way it works because everybody’s got a different background. Some people have total pain and dysfunction in their past, and it’s shaped them who they are. And I can’t speak to that. I can’t address that. All I could do is pray for those people, but I always feel like there’s a way through that. I don’t know who your listeners are, but I hope that those people listening can’t connect with what you teach. I hope that they can find a way past that and not make it their identity, but really use it to work through the promises that will bring them to a surrender. Or whatever you got for me, I know you’ve created me for a purpose. I’m here for that purpose, whatever it is. If you think I can do it, then I guess I can do it. Not that I have the confidence in it, but I have the confidence in you. 

Don Wood: You’re a dear friend and a brother in Christ, and the best is yet to come for us because we’re going to be able to be with each other in eternity.

Joe Hannigan: Yes, I’m looking forward to it. I’m ready anytime, Don. 

Don Wood: All right. Well, thank you so much. Thanks again for your time, Joe. Take care, everybody. Okay, I’ll see you on the tennis court. 

Hey guys, thanks for spending time with me today on Men’s Leadership, God’s Way. I hope this episode gave you encouragement and practical wisdom you can use right away. And if you would, please take a quick moment to rate and review the show on Apple or Spotify, your support helps more men discover how to lead with awareness, courage and confidence. And if you’re ready to take the next step in your leadership journey, you can learn more about my coaching services and resources at mensleadershipgodsway.com. Until next time, demonstrate optimism and possibility wherever you go.